. >> one of the things we were talking about is how remarkable it would be that edward snowden might have known about this and barack obama didn't. then the other thing that strikes me is, you know, obviously i under that these programs are very controversial but the amount of controversy over this program is a little bit higher it seems than when we found out they were collecting bulk data on regular citizens. diane feinstein the chairman of the senate intelligence committee is outraged over this disclosure but fine with the other ones. >> what's worse to express, mike barnacle, that i think it's many world leaders that have this happen to them not just angela merkel and i wonder if that should have come out or if that creates more of a firestorm. but, again, it's not george w. bush sitting there with his head phones on listening to angela merkel's conversations, or president obama, it's very different. mike? >> but, mike, if the president knows, if he's getting this intel and if these reports are right that the white house and the state department signed off on it he knows without